Understanding implementation of viewports

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Seablade
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Understanding implementation of viewports

Post by Seablade » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:37 pm

So I am trying to understand viewports a bit better, this is a feature that is going to be a great help for me with title blocks etc. especially as I work with others in QCad.

I posted a couple of questions on G+, but not sure if that is monitored so first reposting here:

1. You would scale the viewport using the property editor when that viewport is selected? If so is there a chance of getting the shortcuts as are in the drawing scale, so standard sizes like 1/4" = 1', etc.
2. Is there a good way to handle having reusable layout blocks between multiple drawings? I assume you would effectively need to have at least one block and scale the printing for the appropriate size of paper? Or is it better to use multiple blocks, one for each paper size? I am looking at what I can do for templates to hand off to someone I contract to handle basic drafting tasks for me to save me a bit of time.
3. It is best to add all the viewports to a single layer and then hide that layer in the printout so that the border around the viewport is hidden?

Thank you for adding this feature, it is one that makes a big difference I am sure once I wrap my head around how to use it in QCad vs Layout.

And a few more questions as I have been using it. I am having difficulty working with lineweights using this, they seem to go a bit crazy. I have attached a poor example draft (Don't look for quality here, just trying to understand how best to use it).

In the draft I have a space drafted roughly, traced from a paper draft really, with a few additional pieces for a project. I then make a viewport of the space on a layout block. The layout block is 1:1 and has my logo, description and plate number on it for a title block. What I am finding though is that lineweights seem to be very screwy there, where the simple line I drew unless I make it 0 lineweight is much to thick. Likewise the viewport which I import and scale down to .25/12 or 1/4" = 1' scale I believe if I am doing my rough math right, and the lines on it are now so thick as to be useless for printing purposes. I have attached both the DXF and PDF export from 3.19.1 on my Linux machine.

I have a feeling I am doing something wrong in regards to this, would love to figure out the best way to address this if anyone has suggestions. Thanks in advance!
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Husky
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Re: Understanding implementation of viewports

Post by Husky » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:28 pm

Hi Seablade - welcome to the QCAD Forum.
Seablade wrote: 1. You would scale the viewport using the property editor when that viewport is selected? If so is there a chance of getting the shortcuts as are in the drawing scale, so standard sizes like 1/4" = 1', etc.
Yes - that bother me too. e_surprised
I'll file a feature request / bugreport.
Seablade wrote:2. Is there a good way to handle having reusable layout blocks between multiple drawings? I assume you would effectively need to have at least one block and scale the printing for the appropriate size of paper? Or is it better to use multiple blocks, one for each paper size? I am looking at what I can do for templates to hand off to someone I contract to handle basic drafting tasks for me to save me a bit of time.
This question can't be answered with a yes or now neither right or wrong. It depends on the given situation and needs.

Reusable block: Sure. You could use the QCAD Library to use one and the same block in multiple drawings. A copy and paste action would accomplish this task too - just another way to do it.

Template: Here is my solution. I prepared a Template with likely used Layer and Blocks. Regarding my printing hardware I can only print ANSI A what means I prepared Layout Blocks (Paper_Space) for the only possible situations - Portrait or Landscape oriented.
When I'm done with my drawing I'll decide which Print Layout I need to use (Portrait or Landscape) and create the Viewports in that particular Layout Block / Paper_Space.
Now you are free to keep the "unused" Layout Block or just delete it. If you decide to delete it then you can launch the "Purge Unused Blocks" too - all unused blocks are gone ...
Husky-2017.12.10-02.png
Start Template
Husky-2017.12.10-02.png (36.19 KiB) Viewed 934 times
Husky-2017.12.10-03.png
Layout Block / Portrait
Husky-2017.12.10-03.png (88.52 KiB) Viewed 934 times
Seablade wrote:3. It is best to add all the viewports to a single layer and then hide that layer in the printout so that the border around the viewport is hidden?
Yes.

I'll check your example drawing but for the next time please open for none related question multiple thread's. Keeps the forum clean and searchable. Thank you. :wink:
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Seablade
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Re: Understanding implementation of viewports

Post by Seablade » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:43 pm

Hey Husky, thanks for the reply!

Sorry about the multiple questions one post thing, habits from other forums, especially when I am not convinced it isn't just me being obtuse:)
Husky wrote:Seablade wrote:
1. You would scale the viewport using the property editor when that viewport is selected? If so is there a chance of getting the shortcuts as are in the drawing scale, so standard sizes like 1/4" = 1', etc.


Yes - that bother me too.
I'll file a feature request / bugreport.
One other thing, not sure if this is just I haven't run across the use case or not, but I suspect viewports should ignore the print scaling in the paperspace unless told not to? On some unscaled drawings like my wiring schematics I can see a possible use for it I suppose, but for most cases I wouldn't want anything to change the scale of a viewport unless I change the viewport settings as I may have the scale identified elsewhere.
Husky wrote: Reusable block: Sure. You could use the QCAD Library to use one and the same block in multiple drawings. A copy and paste action would accomplish this task too - just another way to do it.
I tried to copy/paste the layout block between two drawings and was unable to. I right clicked on the layout block in the block list, selected copy, and then went to the new drawing and hit paste, and nothing happened. Is this a bug then or am I missing something important?

Thanks for the rest, I will attempt to put it in practice and see how it goes.

Seablade

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Husky
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Re: Understanding implementation of viewports

Post by Husky » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:25 am

Seablade wrote:And a few more questions as I have been using it. I am having difficulty working with lineweights using this, they seem to go a bit crazy. I have attached a poor example draft (Don't look for quality here, just trying to understand how best to use it).

In the draft I have a space drafted roughly, traced from a paper draft really, with a few additional pieces for a project. I then make a viewport of the space on a layout block. The layout block is 1:1 and has my logo, description and plate number on it for a title block. What I am finding though is that lineweights seem to be very screwy there, where the simple line I drew unless I make it 0 lineweight is much to thick. Likewise the viewport which I import and scale down to .25/12 or 1/4" = 1' scale I believe if I am doing my rough math right, and the lines on it are now so thick as to be useless for printing purposes. I have attached both the DXF and PDF export from 3.19.1 on my Linux machine.
The main idea behind using Layout Blocks with Viewpoints is to have the Layout Block in 1:1 and if necessary the Viewport scaled.
Your Line thickness problem is caused by using a scaled Viewpoint (4:1) AND a scaled Paper_space (1/16" = 1'-0").
Adjust the Paper_Space from 1/16" = 1'-0" to 1"=1" and figure what scale works for the Viewport. The print should then be fine.
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Husky
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Re: Understanding implementation of viewports

Post by Husky » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:39 am

Seablade wrote:One other thing, not sure if this is just I haven't run across the use case or not, but I suspect viewports should ignore the print scaling in the paperspace unless told not to? On some unscaled drawings like my wiring schematics I can see a possible use for it I suppose, but for most cases I wouldn't want anything to change the scale of a viewport unless I change the viewport settings as I may have the scale identified elsewhere.
Please see also my answer above.
Blocking the possibility of adjusting the Paper_Space scale would be nice for many user - but not for all. Now we have a problem. :wink:
Husky wrote:I tried to copy/paste the layout block between two drawings and was unable to. I right clicked on the layout block in the block list, selected copy, and then went to the new drawing and hit paste, and nothing happened. Is this a bug then or am I missing something important?
Clicking the block in the Block List / using the right click to copy will duplicate this block for use in the Block List.

To copy and past a Block in the same or also in all other open drawing requires to select the Block in Model_Space. Then you can use copy/paste as usual known.
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Seablade
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Re: Understanding implementation of viewports

Post by Seablade » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:43 am

Husky wrote: Clicking the block in the Block List / using the right click to copy will duplicate this block for use in the Block List.
Didn't even get that here, didn't seem to make any difference. I suspect I am running into a bug as a result of this.
To copy and past a Block in the same or also in all other open drawing requires to select the Block in Model_Space. Then you can use copy/paste as usual known.
I assume by this I should be selecting it in the view of the model, not the block list? In which case how would you do that for a layout block, as it is not visible in the model view?

Seablade

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Husky
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Re: Understanding implementation of viewports

Post by Husky » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:02 am

Seablade wrote:In which case how would you do that for a layout block, as it is not visible in the model view?
Sorry for the confusion - my bad!

You had ask how to copy a "Layout Block" and I refereed to a "normal" Block.

No, in the current version of QCAD is no way to copy a Layout Block. The Layout Block / Viewport functionality is just recently implemented in QCAD and I'm sure there is room for improvements.

Maybe it is a good idea to make the "Command Line" visible to see warnings. In this case it would show you a Message what says:
"Cannot copy model space block or layout blocks"

To reuse Layout Blocks a template drawing is currently the way to go.
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Seablade
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Re: Understanding implementation of viewports

Post by Seablade » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:45 am

Husky wrote:
Seablade wrote:In which case how would you do that for a layout block, as it is not visible in the model view?
Sorry for the confusion - my bad!

You had ask how to copy a "Layout Block" and I refereed to a "normal" Block.

No, in the current version of QCAD is no way to copy a Layout Block. The Layout Block / Viewport functionality is just recently implemented in QCAD and I'm sure there is room for improvements.

Maybe it is a good idea to make the "Command Line" visible to see warnings. In this case it would show you a Message what says:
"Cannot copy model space block or layout blocks"

To reuse Layout Blocks a template drawing is currently the way to go.
Ok thanks, this is still a useful feature, it is just getting it implemented into the workflow now is what I have to do. Thanks again!

Thomas Vecchione

TSG
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Re: Understanding implementation of viewports

Post by TSG » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:34 am

There's a feature request. Look here: http://www.qcad.org/bugtracker/index.ph ... sk_id=1674

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